When will people learn mods =/= more value

"TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts." (thebloody)
08/12/2014 at 11:02 • Filed to: land rover, npocp, craigslist

It never ceases to amaze me when people try to make the money they dumped into a car back... A car is not a house where every modification increases it's value by the amount you spent.

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Also $30k in mods? I call bullshit, more like $17k which would explain the price. This truck is $10k MAX but I'd still only offer him $8000.

DISCUSSION (45)

HammerheadFistpunch > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:05

I don't think 17 is too unreasonable...but I am used to land cruiser prices where even high mileage clean rigs command $10,000

Chris Clarke > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:06

Only mod a car for your personal enjoyment and expect to lose money. Crack pipe on the disco.

FrederickLawOlmsteez > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:06

I have news for you, modifications to a house don't always increase their value either!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:07

Yeah, but it was totally $13k in labor for those mods, bro. I mean felt like it SO HARD. You don't even know, bro.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > HammerheadFistpunch
08/12/2014 at 11:09

I paid $7500 for my 04 Disco that also came with the RTE bumpers and skid plate 3 years ago. You can pick up a pretty clean disco with an engine rebuild for around $6000 these days.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:11

and this... This pisses me off too:

2004, land rover, discovery, off road, four wheeler, 4x4, bronco, jeep, wrangler, hemi, Chevy, ford, silverado, Sierra, gmc, truck, lift kit, mudder, mud, f-150, f-250, f-350, 5.0L, stroker, Nissan, pathfinder, range rover, LR2, LR3, LR4

HammerheadFistpunch > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:11

my cruiser was 5600 but I've put about $8000 into it in upgrades and maintenance. Should be good for a nice long while though.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:15

certain mods *could* add value depending on the type and car but they'll never break even. EG: a jeep that has been previously lifted or a BMW with some BBS wheels. (Granted the jeep lift would need to be a legit lift and not some BS hockey puck lift).

But in the end that sweet body kit, badass hood, upgraded blahblahblah are just ways of saying the vehicle no longer conforms to OEM standards.

Hell my projector headlight conversion has me in the hole some $400 and if enything they'll need to be removed and replaced with stock once I try to sell the car.

Party-vi > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:17

"head decked 20 thousandths"

20 thousandths = 20 x 0.001 = 0.020

0.020 = 2 hundredths

head decked 2 hundredths

wtf?

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:17

It's really all based on people: what people are willing to pay. Blue book values are way too generalized and don't account for a lot of things. Now, if there is someone out there who wants a modified land rover like that; then they may be willing to pay closer to 17k than someone like you, who feels blue book is the law.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Party-vi
08/12/2014 at 11:23

When the engine was rebuilt the cylinder head was probably slightly warped so they had to skim it. It's an all aluminium engine so if it over heats they cylinder heads normally warp.

Party-vi > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 11:24

I was more questioning the use of "20 thousandths".

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/
08/12/2014 at 11:32

You won't find anyone in the LR community that would be willing to pay that much for a Discovery (unless it's an actual Camel Trophy Discovery) and the KBB for an 04 Disco is around $5500-$7000 range. The only person who'd pay that much would be a newbie who didn't do enough research.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Party-vi
08/12/2014 at 11:33

20 thousandths sounds cooler I guess?

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Party-vi
08/12/2014 at 11:43

As a Machinist I can answer this. In the machining world almost all machining is in thousandth of an inch, unless you get into the super precision where you can go into 1oth thousands of inches.

There is a certain level of precision required when machining and you have to be within tolerance. On a head like this the tolerance could be as little a +/- 0.001". so it is quite possible that the head could of been shaved 0.019" on one side and 0.021" on the other and it is within spec.

If you are only machining in hundredths of an inch, your tolerances could be way (WAY!) off but technically still be within the 2 hundredths of an inch requirement.

Party-vi > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
08/12/2014 at 11:44

Ah. So I guess I'm the silly one here. Shit.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 12:05

Fair enough. I wouldn't pay 17k for that particular land rover. But in theory if you found a disco of the same year and everything as the one you mention, but with everything new on the car down to the frame. I mean not only a perfect example of the car, but so well modified that maybe it could warrant being well above blue book.

My only point was: at what point does modifying a car really pay off in increasing market value. Now maybe that perfect example wouldn't sell for much on craigslist or autotrader, but on an auction block with the right buyer?

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/
08/12/2014 at 12:17

In most best case scenarios you can expect about a 20-30% return on the money you spent modding your truck. Added to the fact that the older and more classic/rare a car becomes, the more the modifications hurt the overall auction price.

The only way you get a decent return on modifying a car is if it becomes famous. A good example would be a conversion of a Mercury 8 into a Led Sled,

But at that point, it's almost a different car entirely.

BoulderZ > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/12/2014 at 12:30

Sadly, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for people to learn that one. The fact that payday loans not only exist, but are very popular, points convincingly that as Mencken said, "no one ever went broke underestimating intelligence of the American people." I think he was a bit provincial in his statement. It could easily apply globally.

Captain_Spadaro > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul
08/14/2014 at 15:03

Like rear subframe reinforcements on an E36, or replacement heads on a Ford equipped with the 2.9L V6 (not that there are many of those left)?

StndIbnz > FrederickLawOlmsteez
08/14/2014 at 15:36

Only new roof/windows/driveway/patio really. Price should reflect what it is worth if someone comes in and rips the house to pieces, i.e. disgruntled owner.

dogisbadob > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/14/2014 at 16:09

Especially how easy it is to check Edmunds for the value!

Do your part and flag the keyword spamming crackheads. It might also be a good idea to email him with the $8000 offer.

Bakkster, touring car driver > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/14/2014 at 16:14

Thousandths is the standard ('Murican) measurement unit for milling.

TxBrumski > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/14/2014 at 16:41

So if you're looking for a Disco, I'm selling mine.

2003 Discovery II SE7 in Zambezi Silver

Around 78,000 miles

ARB front bumper

98/99 Range Rover 16" Wheels with 265/70 BFG All-Terrains

Dark gray interior

Located in west Texas

Asking $10,000

TwoToneLoser > Party-vi
08/14/2014 at 18:20

When you machine stuff, or fabricate metal(or plastic) things to blueprint in manufacturing, its always in thousandths. Even if its a zero amount like twenty or thirty, its "twenty thousandths." You don't say hundredths even though its technically correct.

Unless you are a metric person, in which case I don't really know how they like to say their decimals.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/14/2014 at 19:43

My favorite part is 157,000 miles.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > TxBrumski
08/14/2014 at 21:32

Very nice, I already have a Disco though.

White 04 SE with RTE bumpers, sliders, diff guards and fuel tank skid plate, South Down snorkel. 265/75's wrangler MT/R's on 16" NATO style steel rims with a 2 inch lift.

Would post a photo, bit they've disabled that for now.

duramax > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs
08/14/2014 at 22:09

I just had the same thought.

31ModelA > Chris Clarke
08/14/2014 at 22:12

Stock disco engine, trans, transfer, and interior perched atop a prickly nest of classic disco lifty work with an ARB nose job! What have you done to your Land Ford Rover!? It's an '04? He did it a favor.

But these mods are why I firmly believe an unmodded, all original (down to the radio) '90s Discovery is a certain future classic. It was still a Land Rover (not some Ford or Tata amalgamation), it was plenty capable without the addition of garbage-y bits of rock-crawler special, and it had has an iconic and utilitarian shape.

Save the discos?

Edit: not stock disco interior - I just noticed the camouflaged steering wheel cover.

Saf1 > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/15/2014 at 06:32

I learnt this recently when there was an article of a race-modified car with upgrades you would just drool over with an asking price barely above what unmodified examples would go for. And I posted there asking guys these are not fart cans and other tasteless mods these have been done cohesively - I suppose you pay a discount for the expectation of prior hoonage - though I still contend a race-modified car with good engineers' maintenance would have longevity even with the thrashing.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
08/15/2014 at 09:13

Apart from wear and impending grenades on other components, that's actually a good sign in a sense - Rover V8s that have lasted that long effectively left the factory with the correct voodoo applied to them and might go forever when rebuilt. Of course, by now the cam is probably worn down enough to impact power and the timing chains stretched - both things they do.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/15/2014 at 09:19

Isn't SBC always the answer? I think there is still a company out there called "Jags that Run" that have kits to put 5.0s and Modulars into 70's and 80's Jags.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
08/15/2014 at 09:23

SBC is always the answer, except for when it isn't. I'm rebuilding a Rover V8 to put in a project... on purpose, even. It's still the go to for weight in a small displacement V8, unless one can get the very smallest aluminum LS or the boreless Coyote.

Jags that Run is a company that does exactly that, yes.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/15/2014 at 09:30

Isn't the Rover V8 a long ago lost tribe of Buick engines?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
08/15/2014 at 09:38

Yes. Because GM internal motor products came up with a 215ci aluminum V8, then handed it off to Olds, Buick, and Pontiac. Olds hardly used it, Pontiac killed most of theirs with primitive turbos, and the Buicks died in droves to issues with antifreeze - all this after the cast-in-place liner design cracked a significant number of blocks at the foundry. GM said "fuck this" to the whole project in '63.

The Brits bought it to put in a sedan, and within 4 years after that, the Range Rover (after changing the liner design). It was basically unchanged until the early 90s, and most of the changes then other than larger bore and different mains design weren't earth-shattering.

Meanwhile, Buick made an iron 300, and then a V6, which got sold to AMC, then bought back and improved, finally becoming the 3800.

TxBrumski > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/15/2014 at 09:46

Nice! I love the NATO wheels on any LR.

I've had mine in the garage for a while now. I don't have the money or the time to bring it to where I want it. I don't want to sell it but if I do, I'd rather do it to someone who knows what a Rover is.

Sleep R > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/15/2014 at 10:43

Pretty funny stuff right there. Being in the business I see a lot of these trucks go for random high prices. My truck is better sorted and more outfitted than his and I wouldn't ask more than 10k. http://i.imgur.com/YzLscDM.jpg

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
08/16/2014 at 13:31

Today I been learned. Thanks!

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > 31ModelA
08/16/2014 at 13:56

Rover Group was only bought by Ford Motor Company in 2005 after the previous owners Phoenix Venture Holdings fell apart in a spectacular fashion. Prior to that Land Rover was owned by BMW so if you're looking for the last "true" Land Rover it would have to be 1994 when BMW took over from British Aerospace.

31ModelA > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/16/2014 at 18:26

The more I know. I didn't realize there was a period between BMW and Ford. I knew BMW had owned them, but thought that they left the brand pretty much alone. But yes - a '94 would be a gem to own.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > 31ModelA
08/16/2014 at 21:38

Meh, my 04 Disco leaves the same size oil patch as my Series IIA 88' so it's a Land Rover in my books. The Freelander had a BMW engine so I think they did as much damage to the brand as they could...

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
09/22/2014 at 10:28

Anyone know how to find this on googles cahced mode?

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
09/22/2014 at 10:29

I paid 10k for mine in 08 with 40k miles. And have easily paid at least the same in a transmission and new block rebuild.

ikepotato > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/18/2014 at 10:27

I think the rule is whatever money you 'add' to a car in modifications, you can subtract from the value of the car stock...

$750 cold air intake? That's worth $750 less than if the car was bone stock.. that intake cost you $1500... (plus tax).

ikepotato > FrederickLawOlmsteez
11/18/2014 at 10:29

I think the rule is whatever money you 'add' to a car in modifications, you can subtract from the value of the car stock...

$750 cold air intake? That's worth $750 less than if the car was bone stock.. that intake cost you $1500... (plus tax).